Doing Less So Others Thrive with Dr Michaeleen Doucleff Part 2

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Imagine less stress and more connection having a larger impact with a smaller act, never fearing missing out. Welcome back to Element is Everything. I'm Terry Novichek, and in part one of my conversation with Michaeline Ducleff, author of the New York Times bestseller Hunt Gather Parent, she shared how cultures around the world approach raising happy and healthy children. Today we go deeper into some of the beliefs that quietly shape modern parenting and how rethinking them could transform family life. Let's be honest, if you're a parent listening to this, there's a good chance you're listening to this while simultaneously driving, setting up a play date, and wondering if you've forgotten to sign a permission slip. So one of those beliefs is the fear that our children are constantly missing out. Whether it's activities, opportunities, achievements, or experiences, parents are feeling pressure to give their kids more and more. Michaeline challenges that mindset, suggesting that that fear of missing out is not an inevitable reality for children, but a way of thinking that can be softened and redirected. We talk about what happens when families focus less on keeping up and more on helping others and finding contentment. We also explore a striking shift on how we think about parenting itself. For much of human history, raising children was a shared endeavor. We had grandparents, we had extended family and neighbors, community members, or as Michaeline references, aloe parents. Many parents today, however, feel that they must figure everything out on their own. They have to do it their way. Somewhere along the line, we started acting as if thousands of years of parenting wisdom could be replaced by a late-night internet search and three conflicting social media posts. Michaeline reflects on what we've lost by distancing ourselves from the wisdom of older generations and how rebuilding intergenerational relationships can ease that burden of parenting while also enriching children's lives. And as a side note, I'm feeling a need to say to my daughter, I am not just saying that because I have a grandchild on the way. Another theme at the heart of this conversation is significance. Every person wants to feel needed and valued, and children are no different. We discuss why one of the greatest gifts we can give kids is the opportunity to contribute in meaningful ways. From everyday household responsibilities to small acts of service. Children develop confidence and a sense of belonging when they know their efforts matter. Come to find out, most children would rather be part of a meaningful mission than hear another reminder to clean their room. Here's the rest of our conversation.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

You know, this idea of like Susie gets to do this and I don't, this idea. I think this is such an interesting. So this is like the fear of missing out, right? Kind of thing. This is also very weird and very new. Um, this is like a marketing tactic, really, right? To tap into our fears of we're missing something. So we need to go buy it or we need to get on some app or something. Um but but I I think teaching kids that this is kind of baloney at some level is like, you know, I think important really important. Um, because the thing is, is someone's always gonna have something you don't have. You know, even the richest people in the world people have something that they don't have, you know? And so I think this is just kind of life. Yeah, Susie's always gonna have something you don't have, you know, but uh, do you want what Susie has? Because Susie probably has like Instagram and TikTok. And you know what? I don't think it's helping Susie. You know, I mean, I right, right, right. Like, I think I think we again, we don't have to buy into every time somebody has something, it means we need something because the rest of the the adult life, this is gonna happen. And so I think very early teaching the child, like, this is not this doesn't matter. Look what you have, look what we have. And so I'm not buying into this either.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I remember getting yeah, I remember getting caught in that trap, and you know, I kept explaining myself and explaining myself, and finally I just said, Well, you know, I guess so and so's parents must love them more. That's not my mystery.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

You know, it's funny because I say the other thing. I say like, I love you more than Susie's parents. Well, and so that's the thing is I know that's what you were saying, but like you were saying it sarcastically, right? But no, I when I was doing a piece at NPR about pornography and like the risk of it, and um for kids, and one of the researchers at Utah, University of Utah tells his kids that, like, well, yeah, you don't have Roblox in Minecraft because I I love you more and I'm protecting you from it. And I I do think there we need more of that, you know. I I talk a lot in dopamine kids about how we have or I actually don't talk a lot, but in dopamine kids, I wish I had added more about how we have to stop thinking of these technologies and apps as like the treat and the reward of kids' lives, you know, because there are genuine costs to these things, right? And and they are harming some kids and taking away things from kids. And so, you know, Susie has it, okay. Susie has it, but we have a lot of things that Susie doesn't. And in some ways, I feel sorry for Susie that she sits on TikTok for five hours a day, you know, or whatever it is, you know. Um, so again, I think it is a little bit of a a miss that I'm not buying into. And I've got the knowledge and information to back to back it up. You know, when I was when I was little, my mom was very lenient. There were no not many rules. She was like kind of ahead of her time and like very gentle parenting. Very like, you know, we could eat whatever we want. There's candy everywhere, I could do whatever I want at night. I mean, it's just free-for-all. And I remember um once, and I don't think I was better for it. I don't think I ended up and in in many ways, I think I I lost out because she didn't protect me from things. Um, but I remember one time she put down her foot and she said, You're not going to that person's house tonight to spend the night. I think I was 13 maybe, um, because she the mom did something she really it really scared my mom, or my mom didn't like it. And my it was the one time my mom put her foot down and I was so mad. I was so mad and I was screaming and I was crying, and I I really thought I could turn her, you know, because and she didn't. And she didn't change. And I look back on that as like the one of my favorite moments of my mom's parenting because I felt like she was really protecting me, you know. And I and and and so I see it, our job today is to protect our kids. And I'm I I genuinely believe that the internet and some things on there, we need to protect them from it. I really do believe that. I need to protect myself from it. So that's probably why I genuinely believe it, you know? I protect myself. There's a lot of stuff on there I don't want to see. And so I don't want an 11-year-old, 12-year-old either, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Right. Well, and so you're using the word protection, but I also know you're big on autonomy, which I appreciated reading that you were making reference to Edward DC's work, because again, that's the foundation of what we do. But that fine line of protection and coddling is a hard one to to walk.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah, I think you have to look at the you have to look at the risk, right? Autonomy is not, and this is where I think a lot of our society gets autonomy wrong. Autonomy is not just letting children be free range. That is, you know, in in our in the societies in Hong Kala Parent, that is not what happens at all. Like at all. Um it is about allowing children to make decisions and have some freedom in an environment where they're safe, you know, and teaching them to be safe in that environment. So, like a little, like a four, four or five-year-old can roam around the neighborhood in like a the village in the Yucatan, but her mom has been teaching her how to do that, how to handle the dangers. The kid, the the older siblings are what she's taught the older siblings to watch her, you know, and she to keep an eye. And she's keeping an eye, right? She's she's got her eye out. Um, and so this is this is autonomy is not just go have risk, be close, go ahead, kids, do whatever you want in whatever environment. It is about creating spaces where the kid can be safe and make decisions. Okay. And so I think the same, the same is true online and with devices. If the space can be made safe and the kid can, then I think the kid can have it and and use it. But I think that that age is depend it depends on the kid. It depends on the age, right? It depends on the device, it depends on the app, right? But I think it's the same mindset of like, can we make this app, can we make this technology safe for the child to use and have autonomy in? Right. And I think that there's a lot of places that you know a nine, 10-year-old can't, you know, and can you have a discussion with the child about what they're gonna see? You know, right? Like, like, okay, let's say you're on Instagram and you see something that's kind of like porn, you know, or soft porn. You know, is the child ready to discuss that and handle that, you know? And so, yes, there is a fine line between protecting and like freedom, right? Like this kind of there's this tension, but but autonomy is about teaching the child to be safe in a certain environment and then giving them that. So one time when we were in the Tanzania, I was I would in the afternoons, I would like take walks like around because there was not much to do. So I'm taking walks and and I thought I was by myself. Like I really did. I thought I was walking around by myself, and I thought the kids were by themselves a lot, like out in the bush. And then one afternoon I realized one of the dads was following me and he was circling around me. And so he was, he had gone, he was treating me like a child, right? Like this person that didn't know what they're doing, and he was protecting me. He was giving me autonomy in the sense that like I didn't he wasn't interfering, but he was watching, and then I I realized, like, oh, that's what they're doing with the kids too. These little kids aren't just out in the bush by themselves. Somebody's watching, but but from a distance to allow the child to have some sort of autonomy, right? Yeah. So I think we can apply a same philosophy, I think, with online tools. And we have to keep in mind that, I mean, we are kind of in uncharted territory, right? Because a lot of these games and apps are really designed to keep the kid there for as long as possible, to really hold their attention there. There's, I mean, the tech industry used to admit this. They've stopped now because they're in legal trouble. But, you know, I talk to engineers where it's like, yes, this is our job to hold kids on the YouTube app for 24 hours a day, right? And so these aren't just normal tool toys and products, right? They're different. And so I do think we we have to treat them as such and protect kids, slowly introduce and be careful about how fast we introduce things so that they can stay safe.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah. My uh last parent question comes from Amy, and she starts out by saying, I found myself in a similar situation to yours, having kids and finding I wanted to be with them and teach them, but I had no idea how to be effective or how to discipline. My mom worked and we had babysitters in preschool in the zero to five years, so maybe that was my gap in knowledge. What do you think contributes to this Western or American problem? What disrupted our access to ancient parenting knowledge?

SPEAKER_00 12:23

It's a really good question. And I think it's a lot of forces. Um, and it it it's happened, it started a long time ago. You know, I I argue in the book that it started like 15, 16, 1700s. Um, I think a big driving force is the fragmentation of the extended family, right? And so around that time is when you see in Europe play the the nuclear or the extended family starts to kind of degrade some, and not across the board, but just you see the initiation of this. And then over like 17, 18, 1900s, we see the contraction of the family like more and more and more and more. And then in the Industrial Revolution, we see it a lot. We see children leaving their families to go to the cities and have families of their own. And now what by the time we're here, we are in this situation where we have babies and we have no extended family, right? We like we're alone, right? And and the parent, the grandparents, the parents, the grandparents, the aunts, the uncles, the older generations are who taught us how to raise the kids, right? And and so not only have we lost the support from our relatives, but we've lost the knowledge, right? And then at the same time, we've kind of accepted this idea that we don't need knowledge from the older generation, right? Because it doesn't need to be a relative at all. Like with the Hadzabe in Tanzania, they don't live, they live in groups of 30, 40, but a lot of times they're not related. They like choose like their own. And so I think if we can value, oh, I have a lot to learn from an older person or a person who has experience, right? A nanny, a daycare provider, know we can start filling in some of that information gap, right? But there's this idea out there. I did a story on this for MPR that like we're supposed to do it by ourselves, right? We're supposed to just like know everything and like you have the baby and you take all these birthing classes, and then you have the baby, and it's like you're supposed to know what to do, right? And and when will it when would we have learned it? You know, like she said, most of us don't take care of younger siblings, right? And then we've lost the parent, the older generation. You know, we I live right now in Texas, and there's a there's a big Mexican, Mexican American community here. We're right at the border. And in some in some of their the communities, the children have children pretty young, so like 19, 20, 21. Um but the the grandmother helps take care of it and and teaches that 20-year-old how to be a mom with that first kid. Um, and this is very common around the world, right? That you're having children a little younger, but the grandmother is really involved in the raising of that first kid. This is how at the Inuit did it too, and you can see it, and so what that does is it teaches that 20, 21-year-old how to be a mom, right? And then the next child, maybe there's less involvement or right, and um, and then there's support, right? Having a baby at age 20 by yourself with just a husband is very different than having a baby at age 20 with your three aunts, your mom, you know, the grandpa, like all living kind of close by and and wanting to really be involved, right? That's a very different experience.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah. So as as we're talking about this, I have a couple of thoughts that came to me that I've never really thought about before. And and and I'm guilty of this, like it's somehow I thought that by, you know, so back in my day it was how to expect when you're expecting or what to expect when you know about it. Um, you know, but like why was I turning to books when I had a mother and a mother-in-law?

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Um, which I did turn to them too, but there was something about it, and I think some of it was, you know, I didn't have kids till I was in my early 30s. And so, and then back to your point about, you know, we let our kids go too soon, and it's become this, I don't know, this idea that the the faster your child becomes independent, you know, you you get the the gold ribbon. Um but that independence then is what lends them to later say, well, I don't I don't need my mother, I don't need anybody else's help. I can, you know, back in my day it was reading books. Today, your parents are learning how to parent on TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah. And um I think it's a that's a very interesting observation, right? It's like, why why haven't we turned why don't we turn to our parents? And I think I think you're right. We we've been taught that somehow experts know more, you know? Yes. And then some parents, some grandparents don't want to be involved. I mean, a lot of them don't. Like my I begged my mom to like move near us, and I wanted her to be involved, but she never really wanted it, you know, for whatever reason. Um so and then there's also this like case of like, well, I didn't like the way she raised me, so why do I want her help? You know, there's also right? Like, I mean, there it's complicated, right? But I think you're you're right. I think this we disconnect so fast from our family. And I've been thinking about this so much. We live in a town that has a lot of older people. It's like a retirement community, you know? And so I see all these older people that are just hungry for grandkids. You know, their grandkids live far away and they rarely see them. And then I talk to all these parents that are like hungry for support, you know? And so we kind of put ourselves in this this mess where the grandparents are in a are far away and the kids don't have that. And so, yeah, it's kind of a mess. But I do think that um you can find people that that like really want to like put it back together, even if it's not your own relatives, right? You know, like our the woman that lives across the street from us is 77, and she's like Rosie's grandma, like totally. She sees Rosie sees her almost every day. She loves Rosie and she does so much for our family, but we do so much for her, right? It's like we fill this void she has because her kids are in New York and Atlanta, and like it's um, and so I think we're in this mess, but we all are, so we can like really kind of patch it up, you know, and if we just spend a little effort finding that that connection. Um, but I've been really like thinking like, why do we think it's like so successful? Like, why is success defined by a kid leaving the family and going far away? You know, we that's that's like the past 60 years, right? Is that the success is going to college, far going to college and then going somewhere far away and having your own family. And I've been really questioning this is like I don't know if this is what I want. I want I want to be around when Rosie has kids. You know, I want to be a grandma. Like I'm all I would be a grandma in like 10 years. I would think that would be like amazing. Rosie's like eight, twenty years old. I'm like, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Um, yeah, so you know, you were talking about bringing it back and it it feels awkward. We're out of practice. Because when we were when we were reading your book, um one of the the moms had said, you know, my family is gone. They're they're in other areas, and and how can we create that multi-generational community? Well, then I know somebody who's living in a in a senior living area and was trying to connect, you know, and I said, Well, will you see if you have any folks that live where you live that maybe their grandkids are far away and they'd be interested in a group of kids coming over and and doing something with them or whatever, or they'd be willing to read. And and I really thought we were gonna, you know, bring these families together, and and then it just fizzled. And I I think it's just like it sounds like a great idea, but it's awkward because we're out of practice.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

We don't know exactly right. I was on a panel with a bunch of psychologists, and I was saying, like, you know, you we don't need to do big things, right? We we don't need to do like huge things. Like I was saying, like, you know, how about just find one person in your neighborhood? Because it's always easier if they're close by, right? It yes, it reduces the time, the stress. And and once a once a month, once a week, twice a month, pick something really simple. Bring them muffins. I was like, that's it. That's it. Yeah, like, you know, just bring them, have the kid make you and the kid make the muffins, or the kid makes the muffins, which wherever you're at. So you're helping the kid learn to bake, um, and then have the kid bring them over, or you bring them over, or some combination, and just try it for like a couple months. That's it. And it was really interesting because then on the panel that the the other psychologists like heard it as like, yeah, have a big social gathering with your neighbors two hours a weekend or something. Like, I was like, no, no, no, don't do that, don't do that. No, that's too much, and that's gonna be uncomfortable because they're strangers and like, no, we have to just do very small things because we are out of practice. Um, but these things take time, right? And it takes like a little bit over time, you know. And I I guarantee what will happen is eventually you'll find a neighbor that starts to return the favor, right? And say, come. To our come to my house for dinner, right? Or you know, does Rosie want to come over and spend the afternoon doing art with me? Or like some right, like there'll be a return. And then the cycle will start. This positive feedback loop will happen where okay, we'll do something more, we'll do something more. Like I talk about Judy, our neighbor, but like we've been doing, we did the muffin thing for like a year before, like, you know, we started having some dinners together, some lunches together, and like, you know, and so I think again, it's like start really small. Like this in dopamine kids, I talk about this a lot. Like, we change with little tiny things, but kind of permanent things, right? Things that we continue to if you if you feel overwhelmed, they're like, oh, I'm uncomfortable, you're doing too much. Right. And um, and so now our neighbor next to Judy is a young couple in their 30s. We never hardly talk to them. They were hardly ever outside. We hardly ever saw, they just had a baby. And so I've been like, okay, take them some cookies. And we've started seeing them more and like to really let's take them this, let's offer to take the baby some. Like, like, let's they need us. I can tell. They need us. And like, and and now maybe they're gonna be more open to like this interaction, right? And so, but but we're starting small, you know, take them some eggs, fresh eggs we have to do this. And and we've slowly seen a little bit of like feedback coming, and you know, um, so yeah, you're right. We're out of practice, but we can just start really small. And in the end, what do you have to lose? Because you're just gonna teach the kid to make muffins, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Everybody needs a good muffin every now and then.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

And then the muffins turn into all sorts of baking. I mean, like, you know, it's you start with muffins, then you eventually the kid will make you lasagna for dinner. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

So you had the benefit of having all this aha moment and and hands-on learning when Rosie was young.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

So I'm one of our audience members, and my kids one or more of my children are much older. Yes. I have not been doing these things with them. Where do you suggest somebody start?

SPEAKER_00 24:13

You know, I I think first it's it's a mind shift. I I really do. I I I think it's a it's a you're not gonna get very far if you think the kid is is never gonna learn to help or never gonna like they're too old. You really aren't. I mean, it's the same with the screens. You're not gonna get very far if you think this is too hard and I can't do it, right? Right? Yeah, you're not, right? So I really believe, and one of the Inuit moms told me this like we all have this little light of flame inside of us that wants to help, no matter our age and no matter who we are. And the flame never goes out. It it just gets a little dim, and you've got to fan it just a little bit. And and so I would say start with like I'm thinking of like a teenager, I'm thinking of my nephew who's 15, and he came to our house and he doesn't know how to cook. He's he's hardly lifted a finger in the kitchen. Sorry for my sister if she's listening. But like, um, but you know, and he's on his phone all the time. And I was making Danner, and he's sitting there on the couch on Instagram, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is not how this works. I am not a personal chef. I didn't say that, but this is what I felt inside. And I also felt inside he he's gonna feel better, he's gonna be happier if he gets off that Instagram and comes help. And so I said, Crawford, I said, come come over here and help me and Rosie chop these potatoes. And he kind of, you know, and kind of like, but he put it down and he came over and he started chopping the potatoes, and we had a blast and we were talking and laughing, and um, and I could tell he was way happier than sitting there scrolling on Instagram. And so I think that's like, and then that's what we did each night. And um, and I think that's where it starts. It's like, come over here and help me. And if it's if they don't want to do that, then it's come over here and tell me about your day. Come over and tell me about the X project you're working on, or even come over and tell me what you're looking at on Instagram. I want to know what you're looking at on Instagram, you know, just come over and talk to me and be with me while I'm working. And children learn through that. I mean, they learn and eventually they will want to help. Everybody wants to help. Um, you just you you can't force it, but you gotta encourage it and you gotta help them realize how good it feels and how much better it is than just being on your phone all the time. You know, there was a a report, I think in 2023, 2024, from the National Council on Adolescence. I might be getting that wrong, but it was about, you know, why are we have this teenage mental health crisis? What's kind of one of the major drivers? And the the conclusion was is that teenagers feel like they're they don't have purpose in life, that their life doesn't have meaning and what they do doesn't matter to their parents, right? Well, part of that is the parents creating opportunities for the kid to have purpose and the kid to do things that matter, you know? And if we just allow them to sit on their phone all the time, then we're not doing we're not giving them that. And so I argue that like that purpose and mattering matters more to those the those adolescents, even than that little kid, even though the little kid has all this gumption to do it, right? Um so it works. I'm telling you, it works. I've I've applied the method to adults, and it works on adults, and teenagers are more flexible in many ways. Um, and so it works. You just gotta have a little bit softer, gentler approach, you know, less forcing, a little more wiggle room for saying no, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

And well, and it's it is very different. One of the things I was thinking about in in reading the book was, you know, I don't have a narwhal hanging outside my house. And, you know, like we don't, that's not our lifestyle. We're yes, we're not catching our food, but we are going to the grocery store. Yes. And and you know, so this grocery store can be a family affair. And I think that's one of those things where, you know, it's a lot easier to say, you know, spouse or neighbor, will will you watch my kids while I go to the store so I don't have to deal with it. Yes. But if I can make them part of the the process. And then I think too, you know, we're eating out and we're eating food that's faster to prepare or gets delivered to our house. And and so we don't have those experiences, really.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah, we don't have as many. We don't have as many. I think I think it's true. But then at the same time, we don't have a lot of time anyway. Right? Like the parents often complain to me, like, oh, I'd love to do high gathered parent, but I don't have time, you know? And so I I say to them, like, you don't need much of it. You really don't. And so, yes, we don't have as much work to do, but we don't have as much time. And so we can just do what we can, you know. Like I always tell parents, like, pick one meal a week to make with the kid. Like one. Or or one or two a month, you know. I mean, over the child's lifetime, that is gonna teach them to cook. Right. Yeah. Because because it's a lot, right? Yeah, you know, and and that that child will remember those meals for, I mean, it'll be like highlight. I'm I'm telling you it'll be highlight, right? Um, you know, cleaning, like we we've learned, we've realized because we do all the cleaning together or like almost all of it together, we've realized like how fast it is when you're all together. It's like cleaning up five minutes a day. That's all you need, right? You these are not things you have to do like hours and hours every day, right? Or you don't even need to do them every day, right? But it's just valuing it enough to do it once a week. So we what we did was we got rid of all the child activities on Saturday. I was so tired of child activities, art class, dance, museums, just expensive, stressful. I was driving around San Francisco all the time. And I was just like, you know what? We're gonna make breakfast together. We're gonna clean out breakfast, and then we're gonna go to the grocery store. And we're gonna relax and enjoy it and not rush. And this is the activity. Yeah. And it taught us that, like, wow, we really enjoy this. And we're all better and happier than rushing around San Francisco doing all these classes. And so then we wanted to do more of it, right? And so if you do a little bit and and feel the pleasure and joy of it and not do it rushed, you'll start wanting to do, I guarantee you'll want to do more. That's how our brain works. If we experience joyfulness, then we want to do it again.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Right. Yeah. Well, and you mentioned, you know, we don't have enough time. Well, we say that, but then if you really sit back and do a, you know, a time audit, yes, you're realizing, oh, there are some things I could cut out that are really less meaningful and rewarding.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yes, I always just say in San Francisco, like we rush around so we can be bored.

unknown 31:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Right? Like we're rushing back to get to the the condo or the house, and then we're like, what do we do now?

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

You know, like I'm like, why don't we just take our time walking back and then, you know, yeah, I agree with you. Do a time audit. I love that idea. And like figure out, like, you know, because then there's all there was always this idea of like, how do I fill this time? You know, so it's weird. It's like I was stressed, but I was also like, how do I fill the time? Like, what, like, you know, maybe do less and really and relax and take it easy. And then kids will definitely feel better if you're not stressed. The kids calm down, you know. Less can be more. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Well, Michaeline, it has been such a pleasure talking to you. And I I really um appreciate your research and your experience and all that you're doing to to spread it and help other people.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. I hope it I hope I helped some. I have a story on MPR about siblings that um I can send you. Yes, yes. It's really it's a little bit of what was in that chapter, and um, it's a really beautiful piece. It's about how um a lot of communities parents teach kids that helping others and helping siblings in particular, helping your sibling is a big source of joy in your life. And so instead of seeing it as like a sacrifice or something you have to do, that the parents teach them that no, this is this is what brings you happiness. This is kind of a selfish thing. You help your sibling for your benefit.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

So oh, I look forward to seeing that. And then um, so uh Dopamine Kids, that's a 2026 book.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, it came out in March. It came out in March, and you can get it. And um yeah, it's all it's it I see it as like a a guide to the 21st century problems, you know. Like it's so all the things that with with Hunt Gather Parent, some very astute readers say, well, there's not much in here about screens, you know, and like food, and that was intentional because you know, these products weren't around, haven't been around more than like 20, 20, 15, 20 years. Food is like a little longer, but auto-process food, but um, and the tools that parents have been using for thousands of years really don't work that well on these things. And so um I I spent like four or five years really studying the neuroscience of how these things work on our brains and how they've been designed. And then uh I came up with this like five steps to really handle them and um protect what what matters to you and your family, and at least make some space in your life, how to make space in your life for what really matters and what really nourishes us and gives us real pleasure. Um and and so it's really about bringing more joy and happiness into our lives instead of this idea that we're to limiting screens means you know, limiting pleasure. So Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm excited to read it. Michaeline reminds us that meaningful change doesn't have to begin with a major parenting overhaul. A lot of times transformation starts with small acts like just inviting a child to help, or seeking guidance from an older person, or just letting go of a fear-driven decision. Those simple moments can create powerful ripple effects throughout a family, which can then extend to the community. As you reflect on today's episode, I encourage you to do a simple time audit like Michaeline and I had talked about. I know I've put out the idea of a time audit challenge before, but this time focus not on just your time, but your time with others. Take an honest look at where your hours are going each week and ask what can you let go of? What commitments, habits, or distractions are taking up space that could be replaced with something or someone more meaningful? What might happen if some of that time were redirected toward deeper family connections, maybe opportunities for others to contribute, or relationships with older and younger generations and acts of service in your community. Element is everything is about helping people discover and live into their element, which isn't always about adding something new to your life. Sometimes it's about removing what no longer serves you in order to make room for what matters most. As you think about multi-generational relationships, you just may find something that guides you to your element. I hope you found some value in today's episode. If so, please take a moment to leave a positive review on the podcast platform you use and share the episode on social media. If you visit the Element is Everything website, you'll find additional resources on today's topic. Invite friends and family to join our community of listeners as we ponder science, perspectives, and strategies around personal accountability, courageous learning, and clear decision making for a sense of connection to ourselves, others, and life.