Against the Grade with Mason Ember

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Imagine an education that makes space for the joys of summer all year long. What would it take to carry that spirit of freedom, creativity, and curiosity into the school year so that learning feels like less of a chore and more like living. Welcome back to Element is Everything, the podcast where we explore what it means to find your element, that place where interests and talents collide to help us feel great and do great. I'm your host, Terry Novichek, and today we're hearing from a voice that's too often missing in conversations about education. The learner. Our guest, Mason Ember, is a 16-year-old aspiring filmmaker who's about to release his first documentary. His subject, homeschooling. For Mason, this isn't about escaping tests or rigid schedules. It's about reclaiming education as something deeply human. It's about learning at the right time, creating and applying what we discover, reflecting on who we are and how we grow, and sharing our unique voice with others. So, how does learning at home shape not just a student but a storyteller? Let's find out. Meet Mason.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

My name is Mason Ember. I am 16 years old, and I am a filmmaker and uh a producer. I produce um uh friends of mine when they have short films, I'll I'll produce them. I love filmmaking. Um, it's to me, storytelling in any format, in in visual art, but particularly in filmmaking, um is the best way to connect with people. And um and that's basically what I do. So I am homeschooled or unschooled. Um, and so I spend a lot of my time filmmaking and writing. And right now, my main focus is this documentary project uh called Against the Grade about other homeschool teenagers, um, uh some of whom are similar to me. Most of them are very, very different uh to me. And so a lot of my days are going into whether it be New York or deeper into Connecticut. Um, I live in Connecticut and following these kids around, my friends around, and seeing what they do with their time. And it's to me, it's remarkably educational because just I think we can sort of get boxed in by um what our lives look like. And I can convince myself, like, well, this is this is normal, right? But for somebody else, what I do is is totally alien. And what they do, whether it's running clubs or um hosting a book club or um, you know, playing basketball or writing music, you know, that's that's their normal. And so to me it's it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Do you spend time with other teens that attend conventional schools?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

I do. Um, I have some friends who are in public school um and private school. Um I've I've always found that it's harder to relate to my friends in public and private school just because my life is so different. And so, you know, when they're talking about the SAT scores or APs, I'm kind of like, yeah, you know, I don't know. But um, but yeah, you know, I try to have a mix of friends. I think it's really important for homeschoolers and unschoolers to understand that most people don't live their lives in the way we do. Um, and there have also been times where I'll do a program where it is mostly kids in public or private school. Um, and I'll I'll sort of be taken aback by how um, and I and I don't say this as a criticism, but how um nervous people are to speak up or to talk about what they're interested in or what they're doing. And it really does make you wonder what are they teaching these kids in in public and private school? You know, again, not not as a criticism, but just as a what what can we do to sort of get onto the same level, not in terms of of skill or knowledge, but just in terms of a willingness to share with each other um who we are and what we like to do.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah. And there what made me think of to ask that question was when you were just talking about um, you know, your interaction with other homeschoolers and what and the different worlds that they live in and and that those that go to a conventional school all have that same world, right? That that same daily experience. And um do you find in your relationship with them, just like you are saying, you know, I feel a little out of touch when they're talking about, you know, SATs and AP and all that?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Are there times that they feel that way with you?

SPEAKER_01 5:22

And that's that's a great question. And and maybe it does sort of also bring us to the to the um inspiration for the project, too, because I I don't just feel that way about other kids, but people in general. Um, you know, there's always kind of a a misunderstanding in terms of what it is I do. Partially, and I think this is a great part about homeschooling, as I said, is that everybody is doing something totally different. Um, so most people have met a homeschooler, but um, there's a pretty high chance that that homeschooler was doing something completely different than what I'm doing, what my parents are doing, what my family is doing. But also, if you look in the media and how homeschooling is portrayed, um, one of my favorite, I mean it's a very funny movie, it's Mean Girls. Uh yeah. And there's a scene early on in that movie where the main character is homeschooled, but she's doing it in a very unique way. She was in Africa, her parents were archaeologists or whatever. But she acknowledges that she's not homeschooled in the way that um most people think homeschoolers are homeschooled. And they cut to one girl who's kind of, you know, nerdy, a little dorky, and she's at some spelling bee, and then they cut to kids who, you know, don't believe in evolution, basically. And I think that it's that's an extreme, obviously, but I do think that when I say I'm homeschooled to people, and this was kind of the inspiration of the project, everybody sort of gives you a side eye, and they're a little bit like, oh, in in what way, you know? And for me, I really wanted to, to, to present this documentary, this story, to an audience that isn't familiar with alternative education. They don't know the difference between homeschooled and unschooled. Um, maybe they imagine homeschooling is just sitting at the kitchen table with your parents, you know, learning the same curriculum as anybody in school, um, but with slight differences. And for that audience, I really wanted a story that conveys the diversity of this world that I've experienced, but um, but it's hard for people to picture. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Right. Well, so you being 16, you are in the thick of it. And there are a lot of us experts out there that will, you know, say that we we understand, you know, the whys and the hows and the ins and outs of teen anxiety and depression, but I think nobody knows it better than a teenager. And so I am interested in your perspective on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah. Um, you know, I'm I'm always I've been open about um the fact that I am a person who's always struggled with anxiety, and um, particularly as a younger kid. Um my perspective on it is it's it's a very misunderstood issue, much like homeschooling is. Um, I think a lot of people's sort of diagnosis is I don't know, just like you're you're overworked, you're stressed and and and whatever, or these feelings aren't legitimate. Um, they're and and I think what homeschooling provided for me was sort of a space to one process my feelings on my own, um, but also think about creative ways to process these feelings. So, you know, if I was in conventional school, I'm sort of in this melting pot of not only my anxieties, but other people's anxieties. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

And um, and so you're sitting there and, you know, and you're stressed out, but there are deadlines and there are time pressures, and and school trains people to put aside their feelings, put aside their anxieties because you have a test coming up or you have to pay attention to the class. But with homeschooling, it it's sort of it helped me to acknowledge that anxiety is a part of anybody's life. Um, and it's not a part that should necessarily be dismissed. Um, but if anything could be used, you know, for me with my storytelling, with my writing, what I'm nervous about, whether it's um the future of our, of our, uh, of our planet or um or even uh more personal anxiety, it can be reflected in the art I make or the or the films I you know direct. Um and for me, I think that's a great example of how to use these feelings and not dismiss them, not put them to a side, not not put a pin in them and say, all right, well, revisit that when class is over. But it is a part of class, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

And so the critics would say, well, that's not the real world. You know, things are always going to come at you, and that's why school prepares you better, because it does, you know, train you to persevere and work through the anxiety and and you know, suppress it, like you're suggesting. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Well, it's funny because I think it it kind of goes back to the idea of what learning is. Um, and I think learning is probably the most natural thing we do besides maybe eating and sleeping and and breathing, you know, but but learning is so natural. Um, and school like like it somehow made it into the most unnatural thing. Um, and so I actually I think homeschooling can be closer to the real world because sort of the the inspiration for your learning comes from a genuine desire to know things, you know, a genuine desire to do the things you want to do. And there are struggles, whether it's um anxiety or disappointment. Um there are setbacks that um that come from from the natural process of trying to learn something. And um, and from there you learn how to deal with it. School is a very manufactured sort of um sort of environment. And maybe you come across uh difficulties, but they're not necessarily the same difficulties you would come across in the in the real world.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Very well said. Well, so along those lines, um, what do you think school should be?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

It's a good question. What should school be? I think that school should be a place that people are really excited to go to. I think we've gotten way too used to the idea of you ask a person my age, are you liking school? And they're gonna say, No, I don't. Maybe I like one subject, but I don't like school. I don't like going to school. And I think we've gotten way too used to that as an answer. And we've gotten way too comfortable with it as an answer because as I said, learning is this all-encompassing thing. It's all we do, you know, and school sort of siphons it down into this very um grade-focused, testing-focused, uh, high stress, high anxiety environment. And I mean, you talk about this a lot on this podcast of, you know, the element that kids are in that they're living in. So I think that school should be a welcoming environment. I think it should be a um, you know, a curious environment. Um, I think down to the buildings themselves, they should be uh they are should we be learning in classrooms? One of the amazing parts about doing this documentary is that so many of the um kids, particularly in New York City, do most of their classes in the museums of the city, the Met, um, the Natural History Museum. These are these amazing environments that are that just spark so much excitement in terms of the history of our world, of science. And then you kind of go to a classroom and you're like, really, this is it? You know, we're we're looking at these things through, you know, um paper and and books, but and that's fine. I mean, for some people, that's their only option. And and and I totally understand that. But it would be amazing if we could take the premise of school and where it is well thought out and sort of broaden it to be a more exciting and open environment for kids of all different interests and uh and stripes.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Do you do you feel that there should be like a common, I don't want to say common core, but a a common some standards? Like everybody should know these things and these subjects.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yeah. I mean, it's it's an interesting question. And I think that that's one of the places where homeschooling and alternative education in general maybe isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. Um, I think for most of the kids I've been following, um, they sort of naturally have a desire to learn math and and science and history, sort of the basics. But then there are some where they don't. And if their life is set up in such a way where they don't have to learn anything, maybe they become a teenager and they don't know things that that other people know. My the closest thing I have to an answer um to that is is from my own experience, which is that I never liked math. It was never my favorite subject. Um, and so I didn't really touch math for for a lot of my life. And then I made some friends who were really into math. They they had an understanding of math. And all of a sudden, not only did I want to know more about math, but I had more of an understanding of it because I was around people who had an understanding of it. And again, I think that's where learning is innate and it's natural. It comes up because of the frustration that we don't know things. So if we tell somebody you have to learn math and they ask why, and they're like, well, it's just important. I feel like that's kind of an unsatisfying answer for a kid. At least it was unsatisfying for me. But if I can experience why I need to know math, because it it's so all-encompassing, um, because I know people who love math and understand it, that's going to be the motivation. Um, and and ultimately I did cover math and I covered it actually a lot faster than they do in most high school curriculums because I had that motivation, because I had that drive. And I think again. And you were ready. You were ready for it. Ready. Exactly. I was ready for it. Again, it's it's not a one-size-fits-all solution. I I will say too, like, I think that public school and private school does work for some kids. If you're a if you're driven by test results and memorization, and that's what gets you out of bed and wanting to learn math or science or whatever it is, then great. But I have a feeling that for a lot of kids, that's not the answer. And that's why they forget these things after their test. But if there is a natural desire for learning, and if we take that natural desire that everybody has, and that's the jumping off point for education, I think we could we could see some real success.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

That's great. So a large part of our audience are people who um are new to homeschooling or considering homeschooling.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

And um, you know, we are publicly funded. We we do have grade level standards. Um, we use them as guides. Uh, but with your experience, and you know, I I can tell you're very close with your parents. Your parents are very big part of your educational process. What were ways that you felt like, yes, I'm progressing, I am learning, I'm growing? What were ways that tested that?

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yeah, it's a good question. Um I think in a lot of ways it's um well, you know, I'll I'll use the example of the movie because at least right now this is uh uh a large part of my education. It's it's maybe the main part of my education. And I think you you see you're progressing because you know, things yes, of course, things get faster, you're it's easier to do things, but also um sort of endings or check marks you did this is is sort of it's more concrete. Um with this movie, I can say, okay, we cut together a trailer and it's done and it's out there and people have seen it and they liked it. And that's that's a progression. And then later it's the movie is gonna come out, and hopefully people are gonna like it, and hopefully people are gonna see it. And that's and both of those are very concrete. The way I've always learned is through projects, and my parents have fostered my education by helping me with those projects, whether it's by filming or by producing or just by giving me advice or guidance or supporting me when it's difficult. Um, and so I think in a lot of ways, the way I've learned that I've been progressing is out of the satisfaction of having completed something. Um, and I and I don't know if kids in school get that as much. Maybe they do in some ways, like, okay, you you completed the test check mark, but then there's another test and you keep going with it, and there's no visual representation of your success, and there's no real change to your life other than the promise of, well, maybe you're gonna get into a better school one day. Um, but for me, it's always been like, okay, I um, you know, let's say I wanted to learn how to sew something. So we we brought out the sewing machine and I made a piece of clothing, and now that piece of clothing is sitting in the closet, and that's the the physical manifestation that I learned something. And so I think it's it's it's much less complicated than people make it seem. And I understand why they make it sound so complicated because it it seems so complicated, but just do things and have a curiosity about things and you'll see the um you'll see the outcomes.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Well, and you've done um, you know, exactly what the states have done. You you laid out learning objectives. You decided, you know, what does proficient look like? What does done look like? Um difference being is that you've decided what the learning objectives are.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Right. Right. Well, yeah, and it's it's interesting because I think that there is also a concern about homeschooling in in some ways of that there are different standards of quality that different families have. You know, maybe some parents are sort of more slapdash and they they'll say, okay, you you you got it, basically, let's move on, or because they don't, um, they're a little lazy or they don't want to, you know, spend all that time teaching. And then there's also the question of resources. Like some people don't have sewing machines, some people don't have access to cameras to make movies. And that's one of the places where I feel like another real answer to this problem, because I do think it's a problem that we have uh in terms of education, is to improve public schools. Like, I don't think the answer is for everybody to leave school, everybody to either join an alternative school, um, whether it's a Montessori or a Waldorf or whatever, or homeschool, because that that costs money, that there's resources that that you need. Maybe it's easier to homeschool in a city than it is somewhere that's rural. But I think if we provide more of these resources to schools, and really if we provide the the this new philosophy of education to teachers, you know, these are these are smart, trained people who who know how to convey information. It's just the information they're conveying isn't as inspiring as it could be, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Well, and so that's what I would like to think. My element is is um inspiring those teachers. And you just played a very big role in that. So thank you. Thank you very much for your time. I know that um you're on a a schedule today. Um well, so tell me a little bit. You've got a website.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yes, yes. So um for for anybody who wants to, well, first of all, for anybody who wants to sort of um keep up with what I'm doing, um, you can follow me on Instagram. That would be at uh embers underscore insta. Embers ember is my last name. Um, or you can go to my website, which is masonember.com. And then for anybody who wants to stay posted on particularly the film, uh, you can go to against the grade.com. The movie is called Against the Grade. And there you can sign up for our mailing list. You can see behind the scenes photos, and eventually um there will be more info on where and how to see the movie when it comes out in uh uh summer of next year, 2026.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

That's great. I am gonna sign up for that today.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Oh, great. Thank you so much. And and I'm so excited to talk with somebody who's doing uh so many exciting things in terms of education, and I really think that this is a growing movement, it's a growing world. And if this film and my story can play even just a small part in that, um, I'm happy. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Mason reminds us school should be a place people are excited to go. What a concept. Why did we ever let ourselves reach a point where the best thing about summer is simply not having to go to school? It's Labor Day weekend right now, the beginning of a new school year. Once the excitement of new supplies, new clothes, and hopefully of new friends wears off, how will you or your kids really feel about school? Here's your reflect and connect challenge for this episode. What did you or your child enjoy doing this summer that can't seem to fit into the schedule once school is in session? Maybe it was earning money at a summer job, spending unhurried time with family, creating something new, diving into an interest, or discovering a new hobby. Identify one or two of those experiences that brought the most energy and meaning and then ask why. What needs did those activities meet? Was it about connection? Maybe there was a sense of purpose, perhaps it was the feeling of freedom and maybe you just liked learning and growing. Consider how small pieces of those experiences can continue throughout the school year. Whether that's setting aside time for a project, integrating an interest into school assignments, or keeping a family ritual alive. Share your reflection with others because talking about it makes the vision clearer and the commitment stronger. For it is when we intentionally notice what gives us life and look for ways to carry it forward that we find ourselves operating in our element. I hope you found some value in today's episode. If so, please take a moment to leave a positive review on the podcast platform you use and share the episode on social media. If you visit the Element is Everything website, you'll find additional resources on today's topic. Invite friends and family to join our community of listeners as we ponder science, perspectives, and strategies around personal accountability, courageous learning, and clear decision making for a sense of connection to ourselves, others, and life.